Archive for the ‘Vicitms of Sociopathy’ Category
As established in the tomes of research on sociopathy, the sociopath is a master recruiter. It is fundamental to understand why this is an element of their existence and how it serves their goals of domination and victory.
When sociopaths make contact with people they are not in a normal reciprocal point of exchange, they are scanning the person they are in contact with for weaknesses or vulnerabilities. Where a normal person has curiosity and interest, the sociopath has agenda and intent. People serve purposes for sociopaths beyond the normal rules of reciprocal behavior, under which normal people function. This is very important to understand. Nearly all sociopathic relationships begin with the sociopath presenting himself as charitable, kind and reverent. Additional encounters continue with the sociopath presenting their (supposed) victimization, by some other entity. This usually is not a case of severity or immediate endangerment, but more of a “test” to establish what the victim will be willing to do for the sociopath voluntarily. Remember that the sociopath has already sized up and scanned their new recruit. People who may be suffering from emotional distress, or stress or any other number of maladies are generally preferable to their predatory instincts. This is most likely due to the fact that these maladies present clear and evident vulnerabilities, vacuums where sociopaths can easily fill a need, which in the case of emotional distress is magnified. Studies have shown that sociopaths prey on people with bi-polar disorder, victims of trauma and people in need, more often than folks not suffering these conditions.
Why does the sociopath recruit? Because of the simple fact that those acting in agency to the sociopath provide a barrier of protection for him. If you are the victim of a sociopath it should be understood that these agents cannot be convinced of their servitude, the masterful level of manipulation that has taken place is nearly impossible to accomplish by a normal individual. With normal people, relationships are exchanges complete with emotional ups and downs. Sociopaths have no conscious, no feelings of guilt or remorse, only a feeling of power and a need to win. With this in mind, configuration of the agent to a point of zealotry is accomplished because the sociopaths have no remorse for their manipulation of the agent. The exchange is one way, with the sociopath pretending to fulfill a need of the soon-to-be-agent and the yet to be transformed victim finds themselves in a position of debt, owing to the sociopath. Sometimes the “charity” of the sociopath is contrived, or even false. They may create a false problem and position themselves as a person who helps the soon-to-be-agent out of this bind. The sociopath may say they were looking out for the person, standing up for them, changing others opinions of them and at times creating the perception that they had sacrificed something for the victim. It is exactly this exploitation of reciprocity where sociopaths build their agency. Always remember that the agent working for a sociopath will do extraordinary and immoral things for the sociopath, as the sociopath owns their debt-either real or imagined.
Padding is something which seems to be a defense mechanism of the sociopath. A sociopath who has gotten themselves into some sort of bind, a grand strategy isn’t working, their whims of sexual conquest have fallen short, or even worse their agenda has become exposed, react by engaging in mass recruitment. For example, if a sociopath is in a position of management (an organizational sociopath) and they find themselves in a situation where they may be in trouble, they may engage in hiring or promoting anyone who will be indebted to them. Regardless of the persons qualifications, or aptitude, they will be utilized for their ability to pad the sociopath from the failings of their agenda. And if anything may happen to the sociopath, the indebted person will serve as an agent allowing the sociopath to engage in revenge or remotely administer their agenda. In places of employment, the sociopath will often hire “friends” or unqualified people to positions to they could not have obtained by honest means. Sometimes with the only requirement that they “help them” with something. This may be an employee they wish to conquer or dominate, or even to obtain information. The recruit is indebted and generally puts aside their sense of morality for the sake of the person who “gave them a shot.” The sociopath usually provides these individuals with tales of his victimization or dire needs to offset any doubts. This locus of control is external and many people unfortunately believe that positions of authority are moral by default. After all a soon-to-be-agent may reason that the target of the sociopath is of course a bad person, because (as a result of the sociopaths manipulation) the sociopath is a provider for them and anyone who is opposed to this is opposed to them.
Really one has to be careful in taking the psychology of the zealot or agent any further than surface understanding, as it may lead to the desire to inform the agent they are being manipulated. This is a game that a normal person cannot win, the agent is merely an extension of the sociopath who acts at first in debt, then later they must maintain the agency or come to the realization of what they have done. The sociopath owns the morality of its agents and if at any point they become non-dependent they are abandoned. Which happens all of the time with sociopaths when people are not useful to them. In fact, as the agent works for the sociopath, he creates a “file” of information useful for the inevitable discarding which will make the sociopath appear in a good light and more often then not, the former agent as crazed or “insane.” Behind all sociopaths are a trail of broken lives. Sociopaths always abandon their victims and agents.
A zealot who has come to the end of the line as an agent of a sociopath is a broken mess. This person has usually resorted to engaging in abnormal pursuits for the sociopath, they almost always have helped the sociopath to destroy other peoples lives and are now being abandoned. At this point the zealot comes to a realization of their use and lack of value, the damage they have caused others and the terrible feeling that they are vulnerable to manipulation. At this point the sociopath has prepared a remarkable defense of themselves, presenting the discarded individual as immoral and “out-of-control.” How does the sociopath succeed here? The zealot feels a strong need to expose the sociopath now, however, the sociopath has created a strong alibi for nearly everything the zealot could expose them for. More importantly, the sociopath has created abroad swath of evidence of the negativity of the agents character. This is reinforced by other agents the sociopath has recruited. The recently discarded person they may find they now have to deal with the lives they have disrupted as a zealot. One must remember that sociopaths expend no energy manipulating, nothing is lost in spurious engagements or in creating a ruse, so the constant corralling of victims is for the sake of maintaining a false position of morality. “The (name) I know would never do what this crazy person is saying he did.” The key here is not to make contact. Remember a sociopath needs to make constant contact, whether in person, digitally or thru agency. Avoid them.
To keep sociopathic recruitment in context, maybe it is better to contextualize it correctly. Sociopaths do not recruit, they induce.
For those interested in how sociopathic manipulation functions in a structured environment, consider this work:
Organisational sociopaths: rarely challenged, often promoted. Why?
Richard J. Pech, Bret W. Slade
254 – 269
Emerald Group Publishing Limited
Purpose – Organisations sometimes select and promote the wrong individuals for managerial positions. These individuals may be incompetent, they may be manipulators and bullies. They are not the best people for the job and yet not only are they selected for positions of authority and responsibility, they are sometimes promoted repeatedly until their kind populate the highest levels of the organisational hierarchy. The purpose of this paper is to address this phenomenon by attempting to explain why it occurs and why organisational members tolerate such destructive practices. It concludes by proposing a cultural strategy to protect the organisation and its stakeholders from the ambitious machinations of the organisational sociopath.
Design/methodology/approach – The authors develop an explanatory framework by attempting to combine elements of the theory of memetics with structuration theory. Memetic theory helps to analyse culture and communication of beliefs, ideas, and thoughts. Structuration theory can be used to identify motives and drives. A combination of these theoretical approaches can be used to identify the motives of organisational sociopaths. Such a tool is also useful for exploring the high level of organisation tolerance for sociopathic managers.
Findings – Organisational tolerance and acceptance for sociopathic managerial behaviour appears to be a consequence of cultural and structural complexity. While this has been known for some time, few authors have posited an adequate range of explanations and solutions to protect stakeholders and prevent the sociopath from exploiting organisational weaknesses. Reduction of cultural and structural complexity may provide a partial solution. Transparency, communication of strong ethical values, promotion based on performance, directed cooperation, and rewards that reinforce high performing and acceptable behaviour are all necessary to protect against individuals with sociopathic tendencies.
Originality/value – The authors provide a new cultural diagnostic tool by combining elements of memetic theory with elements of structuration theory. The subsequent framework can be used to protect organisations from becoming the unwitting victims of sociopaths seeking to realise and fulfil their needs and ambitions through a managerial career path.
Let’s face it, dealing with sociopaths can be said to be one of the hardest things one will ever have to engage in. So up front we should state that the best way to do so is to avoid contact.
Now this is much easier said than done for many reasons. In many instances Sociopaths and their victims are in situations where this cannot be avoided or some form of contact must be made. This can be the workplace, home or public transportation. But it is imperative that you cut the sociopath off completely and you can do so knowing that you are lessening their power. They are highly manipulative and can only gain an assessment of the success of their behavior by contact, if they don’t have contact they don’t know how well they are doing. It isn’t unheard of to have sociopaths continue to make contact via “agents” even after they have been removed from contact with their victims. And as we all know, these agents are usually easily impressionable people, students, folks going through hard times, the gullible, highly insecure or any number of good people (and yes bad people as well) who have a flaw the sociopath can exploit.
In fact, there are cases where a less intelligent or less developed sociopath has been removed from their place of power of their victims of choice. Their entire focus becomes the recruitment of agents to do their bidding to regain control in the place they are removed from and to ultimately reconfigure an attack on their victim. This could be something like a post-divorce scenario, a sociopath befriending a maintenance worker who works at the former spouses home to gain information, or engaging on a complicated campaign to use former co-workers to attack targets at a former workplace…If it can be dreamt up to get power, the sociopath, to the surprise of most normal folk will do it. In one instance, I believe this story is from California, a sociopath was fired from a business and then created a “competing business” for the sole purpose of revenge against his former employer. The business recruited anyone with an axe to grind, or employees who had visible flaws and fell victim to the sociopaths manipulation. In this scenario, the sociopath used contacts at his previous place of employment to keep abreast of happenings and used puppets he had created to file law suits, complaints and generally disrupt things. When these agents had reached their usefulness and when the finger was pointed at the sociopath, they were abandoned. Some of these folks were surprised to learn, that while they were doing the bidding of the sociopath, he had been building files on them to use against them when the time called for it. A hard lesson learned, I suppose.
What can one do?
Avoid talking on the phone, don’t send, open or reply to e-mail. Don’t use online instant messaging or open any emails from them, don’t accept any cards, letters or packages. And most certainly do not visit or make contact with him.
If you have the unfortunate happenstance of having to make contact, bring a witness, actually a minimum of two. Otherwise do not go.
Remember that many sociopaths are also narcissistic and pretty much the only thing which can effect them is abandonment.
Abusers increasingly use a tactic some call “preemptive strike,” where he accuses the victim of doing all the things that he has done. Be aware of this and alert to the sociopaths desire to indulge in this behavior.
Consider the following article:
UNDERSTANDING THE BATTERER
R. Lundy Bancroft, author
Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men
To avoid exposure of his abusive behaviour, the abuser begins a smear campaign against his victim. Directed at her closest friends, coworkers, even children and family, he accuses the victim of being the abuser.
Here’s a typical scenario: Your abuser has been emotionally/physically cruel to you. He’s cheated on you, lied, and usually much, much more. So, you break up or end the relationship only to find that he has gone around to your friends/family telling them that you are the one who has been cruel to him, lied/cheated.
An Abuser’s typical lie: “I love her so much, but now she’s going around telling people I hit her, lied to her and cheated on her and she told me we’re finished. I’m just devastated. I need someone to talk to who can help me get over this.”
Your abuser has already anticipated what you will do. He beat you to the punch. You soon find others believe his convincing tales of being the victim. He works hard to present himself as “Mr. Perfect”. Therefore, people believe him. They ally themselves against you. This was his plan all along. Brace yourself. Emotionally anticipate this common response from the mentally disordered. Hang on tight, it’s going to be a very cruel and bumpy ride.
Do you feel you want to warn others or defend yourself? Your abuser has anticipated this. If you do this, you will likely only be validating what the abuser has already said about you. Without knowledge of the strong psychological defence mechanisms of the personality disordered could put you in danger or at the least, being discredited by an abuser who has already anticipated your actions.
An abuser will quickly ‘devalue and discard’ his target claiming he is the victim of your cruelty. His victims are now put in a defensive role by his lies and character assassination. By involving others he is enlarging his circle of those who give him attention. Any attention you may have given him is now replaced and multiplied by other people he manages to fool. A win/win scenario for a narcissist.
He will increase his attempts to provoke his victim into some reaction – the more emotional the better to make her look crazy and him sane. For heaven sakes, don’t fuel this behaviour by taking his bait. Do NOT take his bait. It is his trap and setup. Provoking you into a reaction is his goal.
Abusers abuse in private. They fear exposure of their abuse. So they need to discredit anyone who can point the finger at them. You may be left with little more than police, lawyers, accountants, and your protective zone of No Contact.
An abuser’s preferred tactics is the Smear Campaign. They spread lies, character assassination, malicious gossip, backstabbing with factless innuendo and cruel insinuation. Smearing the reputation of someone else (often using projection accusing them of doing what the abuser has done) is a major indicator of personality disorders.
Sadly, some ignorant people believe the abuser’s lies that you are the abusive person and without proof of any kind, will, like the flying monkeys in the Wizard of OZ, defend the abuser by harassing his target. The abuser has orchestrated this knowing these people may commit illegal acts while the abuser himself is protected. They believe him and see him as the injured party, pitiful and in need of help. The abuser is now thoroughtly enjoying all the resultant chaos and attention he has created.
*EDIT The reason this has been posted is because it relates to the Bainbridge Mom Found Dead Article Posted Below. Simply more news…
Below are some user submitted views. One claim was to his employment which I confirmed by calling the Art Institute of Seattle and asking for him. I was told he no longer works there, after some inquiry I learned he had been fired. I was also able to ascertain that his mother works there and that his father was/is an experimental psychologist.
A poster and visitor to this blog named “rain” has informed me that Roby Gilbert has been fired from his job, which I have learned was the Art Institute of Seattle. He was a Department Head and in charge of many people. There have been many posters to this blog and as a result of some time away in various occupations, I have been unable to post all of their responses yet.
Some of the submitted comments:
Bob123 said: “…he left chaos at his place of employment, broken lives and broken careers of students…”
PeetsLuv: “…after he was gone it was like people came out of the woodwork and everyone had a Roby Psychopath story…”
KDawg: “..I fear for some of my students, although I can’t prove it and don’t have access to the definitive reason he was fired, students have been coming to me saying he had relations with them…I am not sure what this means and hope it isn’t of a sexual nature…”
ShiningBlade: “…what sucks is he lets us do what we wanted, all that we had to do was maybe rat on a teacher or sign some complaint of teachers he didn’t like…”
This is quite frightening stuff. I shudder to think that an Institution of Higher Learning would have someone of ill repute in a position of imbalanced power over students.
*Edit. Apparently a search of records in Kitsap County indicates he has been to court forced there for an order of protection:
I hope the victim in this case that is seeking shelter from Mr Gilbert is safe.
*Edit. I just learned that his “wife” is also a student and is pregnant and was thrown out of the house. Since many from the Bainbridge area seem to frequent this blog, please consider offering her some assistance. It may be that she would suffer the same as Juliete Gilbert did. My guess is that one could find from this spouse similar patterns of treatment and abuse that Juliete had claimed. Hopefully they will not go unheard.
I came about knowledge of this incident via a nephew who was studying the impact of sociopathy on victims. His psychology class at UW had been looking into the victim profile of women who have had to deal with sociopaths in particular and this case was raised as an example where a suicide could have possibly been a murder, or at least a form of psychological murder.
He came to me because I spent most of my career in the US Army Criminal Investigations Command, with a last deployment with 4th Psychological Operations Group Afghanistan. What started as a conversation and whimsical perusal of a small newspapers blog turned out to be a true confrontation with a possible sociopath.
The blog had comments from 2007 and a recent flurry of commentary and postings. Some of these comments were claimed to be authored by the man mentioned in the article as the father.
Here is the original article title:
Former Bainbridge ‘Fugitive Mom’ Found Dead in Oregon
By Andrew Binion
Friday, June 29, 2007
A former Bainbridge Island woman who spent three years as a fugitive wanted for kidnapping in New Zealand was found dead in an Oregon coast hotel room Thursday.
Juliette Cybelle Gilbert, 39, committed suicide. Her body was found in a hotel room in Waldport, Lincoln County, about 150 miles southwest of Portland, the Kitsap County Sheriff’s Office said in a prepared statement.
Gilbert made international headlines and was the subject of an extensive hunt when she violated the conditions of her parenting agreement and took her then 6-year-old son Sky and disappeared from Bainbridge Island in April 2002. She had recently divorced the father of the child.
She was found in New Zealand and brought back to the United States in April 2005. Sky was reunited with his father, Roby Gilbert.
Roby Gilbert was unavailable…
Many comments existed on this news blog owned by the Kitsap sun:
As you will see below many folks had expressed concern about Julliette as a victim of sociopathy, soon someone claiming to be “Roby Gilbert” as mentioned in the article showed up and began to make disparaging comments and veiled threats to the “women” of the blog.
The comments were deleted, but some were preserved below.
The articles comments are interesting to me as I think that the small island community on Bainbridge may be fearful of this man. They seemed to congregate around this article and use it as a venting point for many concerns. Before the comments were deleted, a poster mentioned that the current wife of Roby Gilbert is pregnant and has been discarded by him. She seems to have been suffering from the same pattern of abuse Julliette seemed to suffer from. In any event, the discussion is worth keeping preserved.
Note that a comment occurred 2 days after her death instantly defaming her.
Posted by TomRosendale on July 1, 2007 at 2:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
She was a kidnapper, international fugitive, and caused untold expenses by several governments to track her down and bring her and the kidnapped back. She is released in less than 4 months? Maybe if she had been appropriately punished she would still be in jail and alive today. I imagine that if this were to happen again, New Zealand may not go to all the trouble to arrest a US kidnapper.
Posted by Jparker on July 3, 2007 at 11:43 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by sue on July 3, 2007 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Please research parental abduction and suicide.
Please speak to childhood victims of abduction.
Please be careful of looking for an easy answer to this tragedy.
Be aware that over 200,000 children are abducted by a family member a year. Be aware that many families have a history of abduction that spans generations.
Posted by islandermom on July 10, 2007 at 6:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This story is very sad. There is a small child left behind. This child is obviously left in a torn and angry situation. I pray the adults can put their own needs aside and create a place for this child to heal.
My brother’s wife accused him of all sorts of terrible things during the divorce and turned the kids against the father. It was very sad that they ever married in the first place, they were too different from each other and had no common ground to raise children.
My nephew hit the dog with a hammer and when my brother yelled at him he was accused, in front of the child, of being abusive. The mother constantly reinforced that kind of behavior in her children. My nephew is in jail.
I hope the adults realize what their actions now will do to that child.
Posted by ruben on August 6, 2007 at 10:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
SOMEONE WHO ABDUCTS THEIR CHILD DOESNT DO IT FOR THE WELFARE OF THAT CHILD, THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO USE THE CHILD AS A MEANS TO AN END. IM SURE ANYONE THAT FIGHTS TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR CHILD IN A NON VIOLENT (PARENTAL ABDUCTION IS A MAJOR FORM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE) AND A LEGAL WAY WILL MOST LIKELY WANT TO BE A BETTER PARENT. IF ANYTHING SHOULD HAPPEN ITS MORE COMMUNITY SUPPORT FOR THAT LEFT BEHIND FAMILY IN BAINBRIDGE THROUGH CONSELING AND OTHER HELPFUL MEANS TO HELP HEAL THIS FAMILY AND FINALLY PUT AN END TO A CYCLE OF ABDUCTION VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY THIS TROUBLED MOM.
Posted by Lithium on August 27, 2007 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I’m a New Zealander, and also an avid news watcher/reader. There was no mention of this particular incident that I can remember, what so ever. I don’t understand why the lady decided to come over here: There are only 3-4 million people in this country, and it’s also small. Even if she hid in the bush/forest, I’m sure a passer by would have seen her, this place is that completely small. This does not look good, in regard to her mental state one bit.
As for the custody issue, I come from a broken home and it has not been a pleasant experience up to this day. My Mother loved me seeing my father because it gave her a break (I was a highly energetic child), and my father/step-mother were trying to turn me against her. So I ran away a couple of times to take a break. Sometimes it can be worse inside of the environment, than to take a break from both parents. I feel sorry for this child, but on a brighter side, at least the child had a free holiday.
Posted by joytheauthor on August 10, 2008 at 4:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It would be highly unusual for a mother to give up her life, leave her family that she loves, give up her work, become a fugitive, and go on the run, without believing she had a valid reason for doing so. People just do not up and do this. When drug and emotional abuse is implied in child custody, the evidence is not always obvious. Why do parents abduct their children? Some of the reasons include the parent and/or child being abused and it is feared they may not be “believed,” because the judge did not consider all of the evidence- in regard to abuse when determining custody, because Guardian Ad Litems can be improperly trained and lack skills to remain neutral and in the best interests of the child, because false allegations are being made against the parent, and because an alienation of the parent and child is occuring by the other parent. This mother fulfilled all of the legal requirements she was told to do- served time for Custodial Inteference, reported to Probation Services, sought counseling, and obtained employment-among other things. At the time of Juliette Gilbert’s death, she still had not seen her son- TWO YEARS AND TWO MONTHS LATER. Not even in a supervised, monitored setting. There is no excuse for this. Unless you have gone years without seeing your child, it can be difficult to relate to this. We are human and sometimes pain is unbearable. We do not all have the same emotional reserves to cope and to survive loss. This is a tragedy. The so-called professionals should not have allowed yet ANOTHER alienation to occur, between this child and another parent. They should have done everything in their power to prevent it. This mother and child should have been allowed contact- in a supervised, monitored setting. If people cannot have compassion for someone who was consumed by such pain- as to end her life, I don’t know what will affect them. I also question the decision to immediately return custody to the father, after such a lengthy period of years. If this were any other parent about to receive custody, he or she would have to prove their home is fit and proper. Why the immediate custody, without observing the home environment?
There were bound to be changes in the past three years. Surely, custody wasn’t granted to dad because mom was a bad girl or because sympathy was felt for dad. It is too bad that the so- called “professionals” did not consider this child’s loss, upon his return to the U.S. when he then could not see his mother. This is yet, another botched child custody situation/case that ended in tragedy. What if the alienation would have been prevented and contact slowly encouraged between mother and child? Perhaps the outcome would have been a little different…don’t you think? It is so easy to pass judgement but unless you walked in her shoes, you cannot imagine.
Posted by julian on December 28, 2008 at 5:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is such a sad story. It has come to my attention that there is more here than is realized. This is a tragedy. This poor woman was left with no hope. She had been through so much.
The truth has a way of eventually being heard.
There is much more that will surface. I pray for her family.
Posted by BrianLeapForward on January 23, 2009 at 5:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I remember this case and I recall that charges couldn’t be levied against Mr Gilbert, but that it was clear that he contributed to her condition psychologically-just that the psychological abuse indicated in her suicide note wasn’t directly criminal.
Either way, I find it real hard to think she was the “bad guy,” I mean it seems like she fled for her life to protect the kid. Something doesn’t click here. I agree with what Joytheauthor states.
My guess is that if this was actually some sort of sociopathic condition created by the man in this relationship, that the behavior would still be around. Odds are he wouldn’t give it up too easy, I am sure it will surface again. I see this woman as the victim of sociopathic behavior, that’s for sure!
Hopefully she can become a figure which represents abused women and possibly allow for more dialogue to address this subtle type of abuse.
Poor Juliette Gilbert. Apparently this whole Frances Farmer thing never ends.
Posted by Kathryn on January 26, 2009 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No, Roby, I did not post either of the last two comments. If I had done so, I would have signed them with my real name. Please stop emailing me.
Posted by BrianLeapForward on January 27, 2009 at 11:51 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by BrianLeapForward on January 27, 2009 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Question to the Kitsap…Is the there any follow up investigation of this case? It seems like a rather profound case to be backpage? Have the suicide notes contents reported on?
There is a great deal of public interest in this.
Posted by BrianLeapForward on January 28, 2009 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I will rephrase my comment.
I don’t think that her death was a suicide. It seems a little suspicious to me.
When I read this article and investigated this subject it appears that there may be some sort of sociopathy involved here. To me she seems like the victim of a campaign of calculated emotional abuse, which may have ended in her murder. This is just my opinion.
As stated before I think some investigation should be done here.
Posted by nellie on January 29, 2009 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
BrianLeapForward, Your comment that was deleted was probably more interesting than the one you replaced it with. I was going to show your post to my friend but it was gone. I doubt Juliette was murdered. Can you speak more to your nephew’s class at the UW that is reviewing Juliette Gilbert as a case study? I am interested in the idea that a psychopath/sociopath can damage a person to the point that, as a victim, they present as a deranged, unstable person.
Posted by dottie44th on January 29, 2009 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I was just reading the news about another woman from Bainbridge who died from questionable causes. It made me think about Juliette. There are many of us who still think about her and wonder what really happened there. BrianLeapForward has a good question about whether anyone has checked in on Mr. Gilbert and her son recently. I agree with JoytheAuthor that there had to be a reason that Juliette felt she would not be believed and ran in fear. “Sociopaths” are hard to catch at what they do. My sister was in the same situation. No one would believe that her husband, who presented as a nice loving man to everyone else, was a monster at home. Fortunately she got help and walked away with nothing but the shreds of her sanity.
Posted by BrianLeapForward on January 29, 2009 at 3:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sociopaths and Psychopaths operate in a different realm from the rest of us. Where we have our emotional faculties occupied by the connectivity in day to day relationships, they have a void.
I am glad to see you have interest in this, hopefully you can help with shedding some light on Julliette’s case. For the longest time Seattle was known for the abuse of Frances Farmer. I think with due time the types of abuse Juliette suffered will emerge in other cases. One thing sociopaths and psycopaths cannot do is quit. This we know.
This can help you in identifying some common victim traits. These are quite common in folks who encounter sociopaths:
* Fear of relationships
* Numbing of feelings
* Difficulty falling asleep
* Fear of being alone
* Severe mood swings
* Loss of energy
* Loss of interest in life
* Suicidal thoughts or actions
* The classical symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Another thing we are learning about sociopaths (that are men) is that they prey on women, both physically and mentally. When they encounter a male that threatens them they usually don’t have the courage to confront them directly and take on a more passive-aggressive route.
I think there is something dark at play here. Juliette appeared to suffer from the 3 classic phases of predation: assessment, manipulation and abandonment.
Posted by nellie on January 29, 2009 at 8:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you for that good information. So how does a woman who has been pushed to exhibit that list of symptoms find the strength to get help. How can she get anyone to believe her? Why would she try? I would imagine that if Juliette had been pushed to that point, it would not be hard to portray her as unfit. Don’t TPTB understand how to investigate this obviously pervasive phenomena?
Posted by BrianLeapForward on January 29, 2009 at 10:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well you have to remember that sociopaths and psychopaths are not like the rest of us. Their brains are actually different. They function at a point where they are emotionally devoid. They don’t really feel, but they can actually act out emotions, so it seems as if they are normal, or better put-trained actors.
Normal people have to be careful around the sociopath or psychopath. Where we have an affinity for human life, they do not have any feeling. They feel no remorse, no guilt and have no true feelings for others.
If I were to research the Juliette Gilbert case more, I would put her experiences thru the following list of questions. These questions are also helpful to identify if you know a sociopath. They are accepted and widely acknowledged:
1. Do you often feel used by the person?
2. Have you often felt that he (or she) doesn’t care about you?
3. Does he lie and deceive you?
4. Does he tend to make contradictory statements?
5. Does he tend to take from you and not give back much?
6. Does he often appeal to pity? Does he seem to try to make you feel sorry for him?
7. Does he try to make you feel guilty?
8. Do you sometimes feel he is taking advantage of your good nature?
9. Does he seem easily bored and need constant stimulation?
10. Does he use a lot of flattery? Does he interact with you in a way that makes you feel flattered even if he says nothing overtly complimentary?
11. Does he make you feel worried? Does he do it obviously or more cleverly and sneakily?
12. Does he give you the impression you owe him?
13. Does he chronically fail to take responsibility for harming others? Does he blame everyone and everything but himself?
Here is info from the venerable Martha Stout:
“If you find yourself often pitying someone who consistently hurts you or other people, and who actively campaigns for your sympathy, the chances are close to one hundred percent that you are dealing with a sociopath.”
Posted by BrianLeapForward on January 29, 2009 at 10:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sociopaths and Psycopaths are driven to win, this is all they exist for. They seek to drive the person they are trying to defeat to humiliation, subjugation, terror, embarrassment, self hatred and even suicide is a victory for a sociopath.
The following is my opinion based on what I am reading and what profiles lead me to believe…
My guess (my opinion) is that Juliette Gilbert probably crossed her husband, maybe disagreed with him or had her own opinion and he soon locked on to her. He probably didn’t let up and kept driving and driving and driving her into the ground. She probably went through normal human stages of suffering and confusion, hurt denial and self blame. The standard rules of spousal abuse apply here, but they were probably compounded through intentional sociopathic plotting.
Wading through the wake of a sociopaths torment is involved. Juliette probably wasn’t able to relate the complexity of the abuse that had fallen on her. Her spouse capitalized on this and used it to make her look like she was in the wrong. Her only crime? Being a feeling human being dealing with a sociopath. A normal person cannot easily see the forest for the trees with this type of predator. Her isolation and frustration probably took her through stages of self doubt and self hatred, what she felt must have been dark, lonely and horrible. In then end she was abandoned, which is the final stage of a sociopaths attack.
Posted by Linda44 on January 29, 2009 at 11:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hello. I knew both Mr. and Mrs. Gilbert and their son. It seems that many of you are discussing this tragic case without stopping to think about the most important person in this equation..their son who not only has lost his mother but must endure the continued attacks on his father, who is a good and kind man. There are many details of this story that have never been released to the media, and it is to Mr. Gilbert’s credit that he has chosen to not publicize these facts even though they might shed much light onto the thinking of law enforcement, the courts and the mental health professionals who did not hesitate to place this child in his care upon reviewing the facts.
I have seen this child recently. He is in the same school system as my step-daughter and he appears happy, well adjusted and by all accounts is doing very well with his father and family.
Please stop to consider that you may not know many details of this situation, and that this boy may see what you write someday.
Posted by BrianLeapForward on January 30, 2009 at 12:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Statistics indicate that the son is probably not well off. I do agree with the other poster that a welfare check would be in order.
Since this place seems to be visited by everyone in Kitsap county, for those interested in this boys welfare I would look into it. If profiles are correct, and they usually are, I am sure one who looked closely would find current abuse of the same Juliette complained of, probably of a new spouse or partner. I would wager one may unfortunately find a child in bad shape. If the boy is in early teen years getting him help will of paramount importance.
Posted by nellie on January 30, 2009 at 1:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
“by all accounts is doing very well with his father and family.”
Bainbridge is small and information gets around quickly. One account has it that the family is no longer together.
Perhaps it is actually out of concern for the child that the comments were made. I don’t think anyone is trying to be hurtful, it seems people just want answers to questions that are difficult to ask, but the tragedy of the situation makes it even harder to just turn away and forget.
After this no record remains, possibly the previous posters from the island can restore the remaining comments that were deleted.
Here are the remainder of the comments as provided by a user of this blog. To date I have received 17 users present this transcript, so it is fair to say that there is a substantial interest in the story. All of these users exhibited both fear and desire to see this discussion continue. I can only imagine how terrifying life must be for them. This site hopefully provides some insight.
Posted by joytheauthor on January 30, 2009 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Children need to be encouraged to tell…to talk to school teachers, counselors, etc. because unfortunately, they sometimes have to protect themselves. Of particular and disturbing concern is a post here, “No Roby, I did not post either of the last two comments. If I had done so, I would have signed them with my real name. Please stop emailing me.” Often, educated people of status “choose” their partners carefully. It results in a set-up that the victim will never be believed because it would be difficult to comprehend someone so professional ever doing such a thing. Abusers can be highly educated with many credentials, prominent people in the community, people who are financially stable or wealthy, ones you would never in a million years even suspect, and ones in all professions. It is sometimes the ones we admire and respect the most, who abuse. They often do not “look” like abusers. It is that “normal” appearance and professionalism that in some ways, enable the inappropriate conduct. After all, who would believe “that person” would abuse a spouse or batter anyone? I personally knew Juliette Gilbert and she often confided in me. As the Founder/Executive Director of The Juliette Gilbert Association for the Prevention of the Parental Abduction of Children, a Newspaper Reporter/Correspondent and especially a Social Worker, I know things are just not right.
Posted by roby on January 30, 2009 at 5:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hello… everyone. I am dismayed that such a discussion be allowed to continue by people who obviously do not have all the facts about the case and are motivated by self interest.
What can I do to protect my son from this? I realize that answering these allegations will only serve to make me appear guilty of something.
Sky is doing great…both he and I have been in continuous counseling. He is very happy. There IS more to the story that I haven’t told to protect Juliette and Sky.
I would appreciate for my son’s sake that these posts be deleted. Please consider that by law and not opinion, Sky and I are victims of domestic violence…and to allow this
discussion to go unanswered is tantamount to blaming a rape victim for “dressing provocatively” in my humble opinion…and helps perpetuate the pain that we live with every day.
It is e-bullying, in my opinion.
I have nothing to hide…but Sky deserves better than these rumors and this biased gossip. Contact me directly through this comment board if you are genuinely concerned and/or interested in the truth and Sky’s welfare.
Thanks. God bless.
Posted by nellie on January 30, 2009 at 8:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It is obvious that emotions still run high in regards to Juliette’s death. I find JoytheAuthor’s last statement to be that of a well-informed professional with first hand knowledge of Juliette, and an understanding of the difficult job of the courts and law enforcement to actually witness the behavior of an abuser. The comments in general here appear to be from people who have a true interest in the well-fair of Juliette’s son. In a situation that received international media coverage, the large number of people who are still concerned should not be faulted for their continued hope for his well-being. Also when people on Bainbridge Island saw the recent information that Mr. Gilbert’s current wife had filed for divorce, they were naturally concerned. Whether “things are just not right” or to the contrary that Juliette’s son “is very happy”, the truth will eventually find its way into the news and people will be satisfied. Some stories just take time for full revelation, and I believe that patience for those with differing viewpoints should be extended, which is in the best interest of all the parties who have been touched by this tragedy.
Posted by no2lies on January 31, 2009 at 12:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I love that the Internet is not regulated. But free speech does not mean that writers may shout “fire” on a crowded page. Sky Gilbert now works at grade level in a Bainbridge public school. This is a remarkable achievement for a boy who returned to Bainbridge at age 9, unable to read or write or to even tell time. He needs love and encouragement, not wild speculations about his parents from strangers or malicious lies from those who actually know the truth.
Posted by Louise on January 31, 2009 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Again, this is a small island.
I have also heard that Mr. Gilbert’s current wife has filed for divorce. I imagine there are many reasons that Sky learned things and has made progress and that is a blessing.
However what is being discussed here is what may have transpired in the relationship between his biological parents. I knew both of his parents.
I have children in the school system, too.
It is reassuring to know that this community has not closed it’s heart to the idea that this story is much broader.
Posted by Kathryn on January 31, 2009 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Free speech does allow for shouting “fire”, especially when there is “smoke”. I believe that everyone who reads this will be extremely pleased to hear how well Juliette’s son is doing in school. And the credit for getting him to grade level goes to Mr. Gilbert’s current wife, who tutored him everyday. As to “wild speculations”, I believe that when Juliette’s Case Study is combined with the current psychological understanding of sociopathic abuse, which was the general discussion here, the combined information lays the ground for “reasonable inference”. As to the “malicious lies from those who actually know the truth”, I am one of those persons who actually knows the Truth very well, and I have seen no lies written here. The question begging to be asked is, why would those who “know the truth” bother to post here if all were well? I believe that the more likely scenario is they know something that has made them willing to speak out, but for what ever reason, they are afraid to post their real names. However, I agree that continuing to post on this thread about Juliette’s death is not the best venue for this type of discussion. I will not post here again and I hope this will be the last comment. Please find an appropriate blog to discuss this case further.
Posted by BrianLeapForward on February 5, 2009 at 6:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow again! I did mention earlier that there would most likely be a pattern of abuse still manifesting itself and come to find out (if the info in this thread is correct) there is.
I would wager heavily that this mentioned divorce would reveal similar patterns and complaints. I am very sure we will find that the wife seeking divorce will make many of the same claims Juliette did. Hopefully, as well as unfortunately, it may take a second occurrence of complaints to bring the contributory abuse to light.
What a difference a few days makes. I thought it quite disturbing when I read earlier that the thread was being being patrolled by Mr Gilbert. Now if this login can be taken as true, I think it will provide value into the previous issues at hand here.
As an external observation I see sociopathy at play. One characteristic of this is behavior designed to generate sympathy or pity. If one takes the context of the thread into consideration, it would be easy to see this in action. Notice that while there has been a genuine concern for the son Sky, the perceived suffering of this individual has been taken possession of by “roby” and used as a source of manipulation. “Roby” has endeavored to include himself as a victim, using Sky’s situation, whatever this may truly be, as an opportunity to lend moral credence to his situation. I think he is trying to play to maternal instincts and the compassion of others to reconfigure the lens which this digital conversation is seen.
Why? I am sure that “Roby” believes that by focusing the conversation on this child and contextualizing it as such, we would soon forget that (as demonstrated) there is a popular interest in what may have been truly responsible for Julliette’s death. Of course, this is not an accusation of murder directly, but a discussion of what may have lead to her demise as dictated by her spouse.
I do not see a discussion about Sky, except that some have voiced genuine concern for his well being. I see it as a discussion about the curious nature of Julliette’s demise and the abuse she (IMHO) suffered.
Posted by BrianLeapForward on February 5, 2009 at 6:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This comment by “Roby” I find quite disturbing:
“Sky and I are victims of domestic violence…and to allow this discussion to go unanswered is tantamount to blaming a rape victim for “dressing provocatively” in my humble opinion”
Of course it is tasteless and there may be some sort of veiled threat there to the “women” of this thread, but one need only to see that at the drop of a hat this individual will sacrifice the identity of his own child to perpetrate a sense of his victimization. It is in these scenarios that the sociopath gains power.
In one paragraph there is mention that “he” is a victim of domestic abuse and that he is protecting the dead mother by witholding information. These cannot occur concurrently, they are diametrically opposed. No person would consider that there is a slander which has not already been laid at her feet after her death.
My considerations are to getting to the bottom of an issue I feel is unresolved, this is Juliette Gilbert’s death. If it is true that “roby” is in divorce then I fear that the current wife may be suffering from the same pain and abuse as Juliette.
The citizens of Bainbridge can use this as an analytical tool and determine if it is applicable in the case of any sociopathic abuser:
1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim’s life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim’s affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
Posted by Louise on February 6, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This thread made me do a search about sociopaths. I found some interesting information:
Sociopaths can be very romantic, extremely charming and incredibly generous. They will shower their target with attention, flattery and gifts of all kinds – jewelry, clothes, flowers. A socipath will sweep you off your feet and treat you unlike anyone has ever treated you. He will typically seal the relationship very quickly, often before he discards his current victim.
A romantic relationship is just another opportunity for a sociopath to find a trusting partner who buys into the lies. Everything about the relationship is a game. They can be extremely charming in a relationship while doing much damage behind the scenes by having countless affairs and lying about them. He will lie to his latest target while he is lying to his current victim. A sociopath will show his true self when he has his next target lined up and he knows that his current relationship is coming to an end.
This is so sad….
Posted by nellie on February 7, 2009 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, since there have been more posts after “Kathryn”, I will post again, too. I understand “Kathryn’s” concern, but I do believe that this is the exact place that people should be voicing their concerns. She is probably just afraid. “Roby” said that he has more information about Juliette that he did not bring forward, but the way I see it, if he did release any new information, I doubt people would believe that it was anything more than him continuing to “prove” how unstable she was. Abusing her reputation would not be taken lightly by anyone who knew her.
As to BrianLeapForward’s post to the people of Bainbridge, there are many who are watching this situation. Six degrees of separation. Everyone on this island knows someone, who knows someone, who knows Roby’s wife, and Roby.
As to “Louise’s” post, I spoke with a man who knows a man, who is involved with playing music with Roby. He told me that Roby already has a new girl friend and that they have been seen in public together at music concerts. He also said that Roby is saying terrible things about his current wife. Apparently no one believes him, because they know his wife and know how kind and loving she is.
I understand why people are afraid to say anything, if they think he is a “sociopath” they probably feel afraid for themselves and their families. If sociopaths are as aggressive and cunning as BrianLeapForward indicates, does “Roby” have a way to find out the real names of who is posting here, since he is obviously reading this? Has anyone contacted the Kitsap Sun to make sure that he cannot track us? My husband does not want me to post here anymore since he often has to go out of town and is concerned about me being home alone.
It’s too bad that there isn’t a 1-800-sociopath hotline so that the twisted among us can be identified and stopped.
Posted by joytheauthor on February 7, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It is wise to remember that a mother will do anything to support her child and meet the needs of her child. ANYTHING. I am rather surprised the private school in New Zealand would not educate its students- or have them near grade level, as I hear from people who knew this child and Juliette there. They were quite involved- with Juliette doing art work and her son being a student. Why would someone say they have unrevealed information and “toy” with people? Because it gives the person power and control. If my child’s other parent committed suicide, and my child suffered such a horrendous loss, the last thing in the world I would do is play “I’ve Got A Secret.”
Posted by nellie on February 7, 2009 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry hubby, but I just have to say this (you can fly me someplace warm if you don’t want me home alone). Some of my friends are reading this and sharing it with their friends. We’re all retired and probably have too much time on our hands, LOL, but I think we are all feeling like we might be able to help out by combining our information. After I posted that last comment, I received a phone call from a woman who says she saw Roby and his wife at the grocery together, holding hands, kissing, and that she is obviously pregnant! That was back during the holidays. What kind of man cheats on his pregnant wife and flaunts his new woman out in public? That is disgusting. I wonder if the new woman knows about his wife, or that she could be his next “victim”? Bainbridge is a good hunting ground for a sociopath, she probably has money.